Curse

Mineria · Jan 13, 2008, 01:16 PM // 13:16

/notsigned

I had recently a friend starting to play Guild Wars 2-3 months ago.
She started with Prophecies, and pretty much did protector title on her own with henchmen.
Then she got EOTN, and did every mission and every single dungeon with heroes+henchmen only.
She got Nightfall to, and even made the protector title there, with only help from heroes and henchmen.

So if you think it is hard, you might need to read the skill descriptions, read the wiki a bit, and learn about pulling and aggro management.

Personal I think NM is easy enough.
If you cant figure out how to manage it... read and learn from others who did it.
Sorry, but if you can't manage the little reading and learning part, you might be better of with Pacman.

the_jos · Jan 13, 2008, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Scarlet

As for the guilds - many people have offered this suggestion, but the fact is I don't like to be tied to any obligation. I help whenever I can - because I want to, not because I have to

There are plenty of guilds out there who don't require anything from their members except being online from time to time and have fun (playing the game and/or chatting).
They might be more experienced than you and able to help you out.

For example, I read you were at the 'Assault on the Stronghold' mission.
In a guild you could ask "who wants to help me?" but also "does anyone have advice".
And that last one can also be used here on forums.
For some questions people will point to the wiki sites, others will get you a direct advice.

The first question on this mission is: where are you stuck?
The first part, where you have to protect that Saurus that should knockdown the gate? Or the part after that?

If it's at the gate, you need to get rid of the archers on top of the walls, or at least part of them. And put some protection on the Saurus.
If you have a team with warriors, you could look at a skill like 'Shields Up' to migrate damage from the arrows on your own team. And some (monk) bonding spells like Life Bond to protect the Saurus.

If it's the second part, then enter the place and take the 'back-route' on the left side so you will only be attacked from one side.
At the place where the mission star is, have one team member pull the foes with a bow (long or flat) so you fight only one team at the time instead of several at once.
That's a strategy used fairly often and is refferred to as pulling.

For other hard missions (they are out there) keep asking yourself what the main problem is and how to adjust your team to that.
A lot of this information can be found on the wiki sites (Menu -> Help for the official one).

Good luck finishing the game and hope to meet you in Hard Mode some day

legion_rat · Jan 13, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

I suggested this before and got flamed for it. I think its a good idea. Not everyone plays at the same lvl. Not everyone played video games all the freaking time since before puberty. I think this is a decent idea. I understand because there are a lot of times my wife cant get through areas so now shes stuck unless i play her chars. Which I dont like to do.

/signed for scarlets idea

easier play would be a great addition but (yes but) the drops should be of lesser value. No gold or green drops in easy at all. this way tards cant exploit and farm. Lower the lvl of creatures, say stuff in market place drops to lvl 15 or so. End of game Shiro is 20-25 but you DO NOT get to get a green at the end for beating it, nor can you access the elite armor.

~the rat~

TGgold · Jan 13, 2008, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion_rat

I suggested this before and got flamed for it. I think its a good idea. Not everyone plays at the same lvl. Not everyone played video games all the freaking time since before puberty. I think this is a decent idea. I understand because there are a lot of times my wife cant get through areas so now shes stuck unless i play her chars. Which I dont like to do.

/signed for scarlets idea

easier play would be a great addition but (yes but) the drops should be of lesser value. No gold or green drops in easy at all. this way tards cant exploit and farm. Lower the lvl of creatures, say stuff in market place drops to lvl 15 or so. End of game Shiro is 20-25 but you DO NOT get to get a green at the end for beating it, nor can you access the elite armor.

~the rat~

No, not all of us have played since we were little. The simple fact is, most of us firmly believe a person should have moderate skill in the game before being allowed to beat it. It's that simple. I don't want to use time of the devs to create a mode that will, ultimately, become obsolete. "Let's have a mode with virtually no reward other than the satisfaction of knowing that we aren't good enough to actually beat the game..."
I don't know why the concept of adapting to the situation is so hard for people. I know I've had times when I used to get stuck in NM (2 years ago, THK was quite the bitch) but for the amount of skills in the game now, there is no reason not to be able to adapt.
Furthermore, you're proposing an Easy Mode on the forum. Now, people here are usually knowledgeable enough to tell you *exactly* what you have to do. Or just use guildwars.wiki.com and that will guide you step by step in what to do. If you listen, then you WILL NOT have SEVERE problems.

At least in the case of "hard mode" and "normal mode", there is logic. Normal mode is for the casual player. Hard mode is for somebody who is looking for more challenging experience, but it also requires more preparation and thought to complete. People commonly play in both of these modes. I know very few people who play *only* in hard mode, unless they're going for the title.

With an easy mode, there is no incentive to play after you beat the game, other than to go into normal mode to get better rewards. Then, you will run into the SAME problem, since you've not allowed yourself to actually grow any skill as a player by playing on easy mode. So, then you're only going to come back to the forums/wiki and be OMG THIS IS TOO HARD I CALL FOR NERFS TO THIS MISSION BECAUSE I'M TO STUBBORN TO LEARN TO PLAY.
Then when we call you out and just tell you to play on easy, you'll probably tell us to shut up and "because you beat easy mode you should be able to beat normal mode".

So, in the end, Easy Mode is a waste of resources. People should just learn to adapt.

angmar_nite · Jan 13, 2008, 08:31 PM // 20:31

Like other players have said here, it's a matter of getting around the learnign curve.

Send me a pm in game if you want some help; My guilds an elite pve guild but I'm sure I can make an exception. See the thing about most decent guilds is, helpings not an obligation. Personally I only help on whim, and I'm sure that SNOW's alliance guilds like Lotu and TAM agree with me fully there. Most guilds will take you so long as you dont leave the game in a week or mooch and leave.

Also, people here have some amazing advice, spend some time in the campfire to get a good feel of the builds, and wiki to get a feel of the game. If your feeling confident take a plunge in Ventari's which I found extremely confusing when I first joined.

You have more elite armor than I do atm in fact! What exactly are you stuck at so I can provide more concise help?

IGN: dark lord nitemare.

PS I'll even watch the cutscenes for a fee of 50 gold.

jk jk

Mark Nevermiss · Jan 13, 2008, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Dont compare mmorpg's or online games to regular rpg's or other console or PC games graphics wise.
Guild Wars is still one of the decent online games graphics wise. I have played several online games and the only online game with better graphics that I saw was Lineage 2, but I hear LoTR online is also fantastic.
Skill wise, GW > any other game out there, in my opinion that is.
As I said GW for a starter player can be overwhelming with the sheer volume of things to learn, and I personally see no reason to be surprised, let alone be offended that non-veteran players can find normal mode on the hard side.
Although I too do not see Anet dedicating time and efforts towards this end, I see no reason why 1337 players should feel insulted by this. Not everyone is as 1337 as you are, deal with it!

TGgold · Jan 13, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Nevermiss

As I said GW for a starter player can be overwhelming with the sheer volume of things to learn, and I personally see no reason to be surprised, let alone be offended that non-veteran players can find normal mode on the hard side.
Although I too do not see Anet dedicating time and efforts towards this end, I see no reason why 1337 players should feel insulted by this. Not everyone is as 1337 as you are, deal with it!

If we could all learn the game and get by, before the skill power creep, before gwg, and before guildwiki, I firmly believe people have no right to complain today. There are too many resources for them that can help as long as the person can read and isn't lazy.

Zeek Aran · Jan 13, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

I WISH there were harder things. I'd go vanq/get guardian, but I'd rather do nothing and get my drunk title than do something that's boring and easy.

Tender Wolf · Jan 14, 2008, 02:54 AM // 02:54

I do see your point here. The only issues I really have lie in the Realm of Torment and some dungeons. Those should at least be changed. Now Istan, Shing Jea, etc.? Those are easy enough in my opinion.

Vinraith · Jan 14, 2008, 03:37 AM // 03:37

The lesson here is: never ask for the game to be changed just for you. I don't think scarlet meant any harm, but asking for advice from the player base would have been a much better tack, and resulted in a lot less hostility, while actually producing positive results. This thread, on the other hand, is just a train wreck.

thedeadlyassassin · Jan 14, 2008, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitchel

I actually wonder what you experience as hard, because I don't have that much problems with normal mode.

Dunes of Despair.

mystical nessAL · Jan 14, 2008, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Whats the point in making a game easier? No, I want to hear your side. Life is getting easier and easier? No it becomes harder and harder and it's the beauty of nature. The harder the game the more fun it is. Dont try to make your life easier, as you will regret it evantually.

Cebe · Jan 14, 2008, 11:33 AM // 11:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystical nessAL

Whats the point in making a game easier? No, I want to hear your side. Life is getting easier and easier? No it becomes harder and harder and it's the beauty of nature. The harder the game the more fun it is. Dont try to make your life easier, as you will regret it evantually.

I confess to being the sort of person who would play any and all games on the easy setting until recently. Why? Because I didn't want to play a game and be frustrated over and over by failing. This continued until I observed my flatmate playing Far Cry on "Reality Mode" or whatever...and thought "wow, I'm missing out on a trick here...plaing it on a harder setting makes the game last longer". Since then my gaming habits have changed.

If someone doesn't have time to play GW very much, they will only get better at it very slowly, especially if they start off with a bad build, and never recieve much in the way of help in improving it. So I can understand the OP's request for a...sort of Sandbox mode...and though I wouldn't use it myself, I fail to see the harm in it being implemented. Few-to-no drops, monsters die if you look at them, completing the game on Sandbox doesn't unlock Hard Mode. With enough penalties it should balance out for those who care about that sort of thing.

I wouldn't use it, but I'm not against it.

the_jos · Jan 14, 2008, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Quote:

Send me a pm in game if you want some help; My guilds an elite pve guild but I'm sure I can make an exception. See the thing about most decent guilds is, helpings not an obligation. Personally I only help on whim, and I'm sure that SNOW's alliance guilds like Lotu and TAM agree with me fully there. Most guilds will take you so long as you dont leave the game in a week or mooch and leave.

Helping on NM is indeed something I (and most guildies) don't do every day.
That is, actually playing the game.
If someone requests help in guild or alliance and has enough on some hints, there are always people responding.

Quote:

So I can understand the OP's request for a...sort of Sandbox mode...and though I wouldn't use it myself, I fail to see the harm in it being implemented.

Well, we should call that sandbox pre-searing or starter island

The thing that could be implemented is a 'scout' mode that activates after several fails.
It allows you to see the spawning points of various mobs and walk through the level without active foes.
You still have to beat on NM before you get to the next mission/quest.
For new expansions activate only after several weeks, so wiki already has most information.

Amy Awien · Jan 14, 2008, 12:40 PM // 12:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Scarlet

... Can you get an MM out of a Hero? ...

Yes, AI is pretty good in micromanaging all the minions and spells for them. The necromancer Livia becomes available early in the Asura quest line.

Quote:

Mazey - I thought to get Heros you had to do missions/quests in the individual games?

Some essential heroes come available very early in Nightfall if you take your Prophecies character for a visit to Kamadan.

Quote:

I know Wiki has enemies and skill sets - but nothing on weakness unless you are up against a boss (in most cases)

Weaknesses can be class or species related, check the species of the foes in the area's you visit as well as their skillsets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by S_Scarlet

We are currently dealing with GW:EN - and as previously stated, yes the party I play with are all level 20. The mission thats doing us in right now is called "Assault on the Stronghold" Looking at this mission at face value, it just doesn't look like it should be as hard as it is.

It's a mission with a manual, but if you know what to do there's little problem and then it's a lot of fun actually.

First off, stay calm and don't rush anything, if you stay away from the walls you could camp outside the gate indefinitely. But we won't do that.

Conquer the right devourer, then take a breather and position your troops - I'll get to how later - before taking on the right one, when you've conquered both the spawning starts and you'll want to be ready for that.

Once you do conquer the Siege Devourers interact/talk with each of them and direct them to attack the left and right gates. They will reduce the harm the seekers on the wall can do to the saurus.

To keep the saurus alive bring [wiki]Life Bond[/wiki] on your protective monk and [wiki]Mending[/wiki] on your healer and let them cast it.
Bring a few interrupts on the R/Mo to use against the Flameshielders, the Wardkeeper and the ele boss. He could also bring [wiki]Balthazar's Spirit[/wiki] to cast on the Life Bond monk - which will supply him with huge amounts of energy to spam RoF and SG. [wiki]Essence Bond[/wiki] cast on the saurus will supply that caster (a nuker perhaps, or a heal party spammer) a vast energy supply.

I positioned the bonder/protector just right of the road, in casting range of the group of Charr allies to help them, within range of the main group and also close to saurus when it spawns and goes to the gate.

The main group of henchies (2 healers, earth ele and the bird warrior) was located just left of the road, which allowed them to help out on both sides, and heal the saurus a bit in his first part on the road.

A warrior (Jora) was placed somewhere between the left devourer, the left spawn point and the main group, to intercept the left spawn group, Sousuke (air ele) somewhere between her and the main group. This would keep the left spawn away from the devourer and lead it right into the main group.

Put life bond and mending on the saurus when it (re)spawns (if heroes are bonding, disable those skills beforehand and activate them manually by (a)selecting the spell-target and then (b)pressing the skill on the hero-panel) and put balthazar's spirit on the bonder. Anyone in need of much energy can put essence bond on the saurus.

Kill the spawns and wait for the saurus to breach the gate. If it dies, wait for another one to spawn and bond that one. If Life Bond is insufficient, bring [wiki]Life Barrier[/wiki] also (cast it before Life Bond).
Once the gate is breached you can breath again. The saurus waits under the gate where it appears to be safe from arrows. You can kill the remaining seekers and regen before continuing. When you do proceed through the gate the charr forces behind it will retreat, let them flee and the saurus will pursue them and follow at your leisure - at full health and bonded the saurus can take a beating - taking them one group at a time.

Camp the team below the stairs, but let one player go up and trigger the riots. Wait until the dust settles and clean up the remaining forces (but beware of the ele boss).

DreamingGirl · Jan 14, 2008, 12:41 PM // 12:41

I really sympathize with you Scarlet, I really do, but I don't think Easy Mode is the way to go.

When I first started playing GW I was stumped! I even had trouble in pre-searing! But I made it through, bit by bit, and slowly I got better at the game. Oh, those first months was a nightmare, struggling through Ascalon and Northen Shiverpeaks.

Then I bought Nightfall and made new chars there. I tried different professions, different builds, different strategies. After progressing a bit here, I went back to Prophecies, and you know what? I couldn't BELIEVE how easy it was! Those missions I had so much trouble with before, PIECE OF CAKE! The only difference from last time was experience. Thats all you need.
You need to be able to try out different things, skills, and strategies, and when you hit trouble, try again. If you don't succeed at first, try to figure out why.Try something else. Eventually, it becomes easier!

True, there are still quite a few bits that I find hard, and not just dungeons. But I just have to keep trying, perhaps play another area for a while, then going back with new ideas. Ask friends for help, reading the wiki, all this helps. I'm not a hardcore player, but I know even I can do it, it just takes some time! I'm sure you will make it too, you just need to try different things until you find out what works in that situation.

So don't give up, keep trying

zwei2stein · Jan 14, 2008, 01:18 PM // 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amy Awien

...

Weaknesses can be class or species related, check the species of the foes in the area's you visit as well as their skillsets.

It's a mission with a manual, but if you know what to do there's little problem and then it's a lot of fun actually.

First off, stay calm and don't rush anything, if you stay away from the walls you could camp outside the gate indefinitely. But we won't do that.

Conquer the right devourer, then take a breather and position your troops - I'll get to how later - before taking on the right one, when you've conquered both the spawning starts and you'll want to be ready for that.

Once you do conquer the Siege Devourers interact/talk with each of them and direct them to attack the left and right gates. They will reduce the harm the seekers on the wall can do to the saurus.

To keep the saurus alive bring [wiki]Life Bond[/wiki] on your protective monk and [wiki]Mending[/wiki] on your healer and let them cast it.
Bring a few interrupts on the R/Mo to use against the Flameshielders, the Wardkeeper and the ele boss. He could also bring [wiki]Balthazar's Spirit[/wiki] to cast on the Life Bond monk - which will supply him with huge amounts of energy to spam RoF and SG. [wiki]Essence Bond[/wiki] cast on the saurus will supply that caster (a nuker perhaps, or a heal party spammer) a vast energy supply.

I positioned the bonder/protector just right of the road, in casting range of the group of Charr allies to help them, within range of the main group and also close to saurus when it spawns and goes to the gate.

The main group of henchies (2 healers, earth ele and the bird warrior) was located just left of the road, which allowed them to help out on both sides, and heal the saurus a bit in his first part on the road.

A warrior (Jora) was placed somewhere between the left devourer, the left spawn point and the main group, to intercept the left spawn group, Sousuke (air ele) somewhere between her and the main group. This would keep the left spawn away from the devourer and lead it right into the main group.

Put life bond and mending on the saurus when it (re)spawns (if heroes are bonding, disable those skills beforehand and activate them manually by (a)selecting the spell-target and then (b)pressing the skill on the hero-panel) and put balthazar's spirit on the bonder. Anyone in need of much energy can put essence bond on the saurus.

Kill the spawns and wait for the saurus to breach the gate. If it dies, wait for another one to spawn and bond that one. If Life Bond is insufficient, bring [wiki]Life Barrier[/wiki] also (cast it before Life Bond).
Once the gate is breached you can breath again. The saurus waits under the gate where it appears to be safe from arrows. You can kill the remaining seekers and regen before continuing. When you do proceed through the gate the charr forces behind it will retreat, let them flee and the saurus will pursue them and follow at your leisure - at full health and bonded the saurus can take a beating - taking them one group at a time.

Camp the team below the stairs, but let one player go up and trigger the riots. Wait until the dust settles and clean up the remaining forces (but beware of the ele boss).

This is sound strategy .... with exception of bonder (with mending!) ssuggestion which is pretty terrible.

All you need to keep saurus there alive is one of theese, with healing seed being best:

* Shielding Hands or Shield of Absorbtion
* Healing seed.
(bad choices if you have better elites avaiable: mark of protection, healing hands. but if you dotn have better elites, these will make your life easy.)

you can basically just camp devourers and send lone monk to recast seed every so often, which heals saurus to max health pretty quickly, so you dont need to do it often.

mystical nessAL · Jan 14, 2008, 02:02 PM // 14:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

I confess to being the sort of person who would play any and all games on the easy setting until recently. Why? Because I didn't want to play a game and be frustrated over and over by failing. This continued until I observed my flatmate playing Far Cry on "Reality Mode" or whatever...and thought "wow, I'm missing out on a trick here...plaing it on a harder setting makes the game last longer". Since then my gaming habits have changed.

If someone doesn't have time to play GW very much, they will only get better at it very slowly, especially if they start off with a bad build, and never recieve much in the way of help in improving it. So I can understand the OP's request for a...sort of Sandbox mode...and though I wouldn't use it myself, I fail to see the harm in it being implemented. Few-to-no drops, monsters die if you look at them, completing the game on Sandbox doesn't unlock Hard Mode. With enough penalties it should balance out for those who care about that sort of thing.

I wouldn't use it, but I'm not against it.

If someone has hard times doing something, HE should be the one to change, not the world change for him. Improve yourself, learn your mistakes and counters, dont just cry to anet that you arent bothered in been focused on the game.

pamelf · Jan 14, 2008, 02:17 PM // 14:17

The game was designed for building tactics and using your skills to their fullest effect. Having an easier mode would sort of defeat the purpose of that as it would simply be a walk in the park...and lets face it, totally boring. I understand that parts can be difficult, but it's then that you re-evaluate your skill bars, look at the terrains and mobs your working with and adapt. Once that is done it all becomes relatively easier. Perhaps, instead of asking for an easier mode you should re-evaluate your play style. Look up wiki on the missions and quests you are doing. You'll get a list of what enemies your up against and be able to plan accordingly.

Au'en · Jan 14, 2008, 03:25 PM // 15:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Puppeteer

maybe you should just stick to pre? I find that pretty relaxing

QFT. Any time I start getting frustrated but still want to play, I just load my perma-pre character and start working on my Defender of Ascalon title, or help noobs, or just wander around right outside Ascalon City enjoying not aggro-ing.